Do NOT use edges of track!

Here's my theory on trackday riding, please post your thoughts on the subject.

Several times at each trackday I find myself explaining this to someone, so I thought I'd put it out there on the forums and see what the consensus is.

I believe that unless you are running at the very front of the fastest group, that you should NOT be using the outside edges of the track - on both entry and exit.

Before I say why, I'll say this.

The "line" around a track is a shape more than a specific spot on the track. So even though I am proposing you do not use the very edges, this does NOT mean you should be off "the line". You are still following the same shape of the "racing line" but you are not going to the edges of the track. This ensures that you are not a danger on the track as you are not creating "intersecting" lines.

Slower riders that are on the racing line "shape", but not using the edges of the track, are very safe and easy to pass. And the best part is, you can easily pass them on both entry and exit - and still be on the OUTSIDE of them - so if you crash you are not going to take anyone with you.

Dangerous situations arise when riders are off the racing "shape" (meaning they are creating intersecting lines).

Now, here's my theory on why using the edges of the track will ultimately make you a slower rider.

Let's take a "normal" right hand corner - such as Turn 1 at the NJ Thunderbolt track.

If you enter the corner from the very left edge of the straight, go to the apex, then run to the very left edge of the track on exit - you will trick your mind into saying, "I cannot go faster because I am already using all the track".

I think riders should enter the corner from 6' off the left edge - hit the apex - and try to exit the corner leaving room on the left. I bet all of us can do it!

After doing this for a few laps, you should be able to convince yourself that you can go faster through that corner.

My suggestion would be to start with corner EXITS.

Continue entering from 6' off the left edge of the track, hit your apex, and start applying the throttle earlier and harder (remember... small increments!)

If you continue trying to hold the tight exit line, while carrying more corner speed and picking up the throttle sooner - eventually you will start using all the exit area because the bike is FORCED to go there.

Bottom line is that most riders are using the edges of the track because they are steering the bike there. The top racers are using the edge of the track because physics are demanding it.

The tires are slipping and struggling for every bit of traction and every time they get some traction they apply more throttle, which runs the bike wide again, and it repeats.

Once you are being "forced" to run to the edge of the track on exit, then you can look at your entry spot and start moving that further to the edge. Again, the trick is to not use all the track because it's there... use it because the bike can physically not go any faster unless you have more space.


Bottom line... don't use all the track just to use it.

Use all the track when the bike is telling you that you NEED all the track.

I think generalizations like this are bad.

1) Not all bikes and people are equal. So a heavier bike uses different lines than a TZ250. Add in rider weight and power delivery and things diverge further.

2) Some turns just want it. Entering from the outside at Barber into the museum turn makes the line into the bottom radically better. You can enter lower but generally it is to protect the line in racing or to pass at a track day. Again going over the bridge the line takes you to the edge. Going straight up and over is an awesome passing maneuver but as a normal line it is not only a far poorer line but the hill is steeper on that side leading to the front to get real light. Not exiting on to the front straight on the outside

3) Passing is easy when someone is taking smooth lines and you are faster more so than where they are IMO. I had a guy that was riding with me and we came upon a MUCH slower rider. My buddy had fits getting around him since the guy was fairly erratic and my buddy less familiar with the track. I eventually passed them both WAY off line to get away from the guy as he was a bit scary (and it was possible since he was that far off our pace)

I can see your idea but think you should always run the best line.

Makes sense to me. I usually leave a bit of room anyway. It's a trackday, I'm not wining anything, and then if someone is trying to make a pass that's a bit too close, at least we don't run off...

I do like your description of applying more throttle at exit. Since I'm not all the way out to the edge at exit, that means I can apply more throttle for a faster exit. I'll work on that, thanks.

I generally only go where I'm towed to...

<to sheepofblue>

I respectfully disagree on all your points.

1 - Again, I am speaking about trackdays and riders in both the beginner and intermediate groups... and possibly all the way to the slower advanced group riders. For these riders, changing the line for the bike is not necessary nor beneficial. There are far better things to work on before that.

2 - I think you are talking about drastic changes in the line, whereas I am saying leave a 6' buffer. I don't know the corners you are talking about, but to use my example of Turn 1 in NJ... a basic 90 degree right hand turn - I can go through it faster than all of the beginner and intermediate groups without going edge to edge. At the pace they are running, using the edges of the track is not making them safer or faster - it's merely holding them back because in their head they have no buffer left. Again, I am not talking about very advanced riders that are doing what they are supposed to do... which is get on the gas hard and let the speed and momentum "drive" the motorcycle to the edge. That of course, is the goal.

3 - In no way does anything I am proposing make a rider erratic. Being on the exact shape of the racing line but several feet from the edges is in no way going to negatively affect the rider behind. I use this method every day, especially at the start of the day or a session. I am not up to pace yet, so going to the very edges of the track is a waste of time.

And one of the worst things I see happening at trackdays is the rider that goes down the straight and at the last part moves way over to the (left) edge to then take a (right) turn. We're not driving tractor trailer trucks here.

I see it all the time at NHMS as I'm sure you do also. T6 is a very common place for it to happen. At the Boston Moto day last week a guy in the beginner (or maybe Int) group was coming down the hill towards 6 and he was on the normal line about 6-8feet from the right side then swerved to the right edge of the track to make the left turn. Bad part is another rider who was much faster was gonna go around him on the outside but basically t-boned the guy because of his dumb move where he felt he needed to use all of the track.

I think I've actually passed more people on the inside of T6 because they want to run it all the way out to the edge so they get lined up better for 7. by the time they get to the edge I'm already at the apex of 7 and accelerating hard while they are probably wondering how they just got smoked so bad because they were on the "fast" line.

Yep... the bowl at Loudon is a very common area for this.

And it's exactly how we had one of our very few instances where bikes touched ... the exact scenario you described.

Juan and I generally ride just a little off the edge of the track because we're so wicked fast.

Not mine!

I believe it was a brake failure situation, however... not just a riding incident.

correct it wasn't you and it was a brake failure. He did everything in his power to get that bike slowed but with only a rear brake its tough. but that's not what this discussion is about.

I was taught to use tighter lines, and here are a couple of the biggest reasons I would recommend them to anyone that is pre-racing:

1) in most cases you simply don't need to use the track from edge to edge unless you are running at top expert pack pace.

2) When you get used to running lines a little tighter at trackdays you leave yourself a buffer zone for if you make a mistake.

3) you have room to turn speed up a couple notches when you do start racing.

4) it simply looks silly when you use all the track at 10 seconds off the pace, and even worse at 20 seconds off.

Crap!!!! He just put my entire post into 4 succinct bullets! I need to learn how to write.

He asked for opinion I gave it. We disagree and I am OK with that (as I think he is)

O.k., so you got some experienced guys to agree with some good common sense.

What is the next step to get these ideas ingrained into the minds of all the trackday guys at 10-20 seconds off the pace?

I've been out and ridden with some extremely erratic riders, not many, but enough to scare the s*%t out of me on occasion. What's the plan for correcting the behavior?

Richard

http://www.motorcycleaddicts.org/content/14-using-whole-track.html

Great read... and I agree completely... for a racer or very experienced trackday rider.

My comments are aimed at those riders that are not yet at the front of the fastest group.

In looking at the first diagram on the page linked to, I agree the "shape" of the blue line is the right one.

However, you can pick up the Blue line when it comes off the very edge of the track on entry - and then likewise on exit.

If you did this, at no time would you be intersecting other riders - and you would still be spending the minimum time at maximum lean - which is the safest way to ride and why we constantly stress the quick turn-in.

Keep in mind that my "goal" in this exercise is two-fold.

One is to keep riders in the less experienced groups as safe as possible.
Two is to help them learn/go faster/ride safer.

Following the proper line - yet leaving space for another bike on both entry and exit - accomplishes both goals for the beginner and intermediate riders.

It's a constant battle - and one we fight every trackday. But it's a great feeling when we take an erratic rider and turn them into a competent and safe track rider.

There's no easy answer as new riders are coming to the track every day - thankfully!